For me, the evidence is strong for the punctuated equilibrium theory of how macroevolution usually takes place, at least in regards to the idea that speciation events tend to take place in an isolated very small subset of the population.That is why those fossils are especially hard to find. But the genetic code in every living species contains a 'fossilized' genetic record of its evolutionary ancestry.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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The Evidence of Human Evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger
by Disillusioned JW indespite the wt's and young earth creationists' teachings against human evolution (namely macroevolution from non-humans) being a reality, the evidence of human evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger.. consider for example two science news articles and one other science article, each pertaining to the fossil that is nicknamed "little foot".
below are links to three science articles, listed in order of the articles from oldest to newest (except i don't see a date for one of the articles).
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2187639-exclusive-controversial-skeleton-may-be-a-new-species-of-early-human/.
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Disillusioned JW
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The Evidence of Human Evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger
by Disillusioned JW indespite the wt's and young earth creationists' teachings against human evolution (namely macroevolution from non-humans) being a reality, the evidence of human evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger.. consider for example two science news articles and one other science article, each pertaining to the fossil that is nicknamed "little foot".
below are links to three science articles, listed in order of the articles from oldest to newest (except i don't see a date for one of the articles).
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2187639-exclusive-controversial-skeleton-may-be-a-new-species-of-early-human/.
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Disillusioned JW
See also http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/science-little-foot-australopithecus-prometheus-sterkfontein-cave-south-africa-02656.html . To me the fossil remains of the Little Foot fossil have relative limb proportions and skull proportions more similar to our species than does the Lucy fossil in comparison to our species. However the somewhat divergent aspect of Little Foot's big toe is less like our species than is the big toe of Lucy's species in comparison to our species. To me the facial reconstruction shown at the above article looks more like own species than do the ones of Lucy's species.
The above article mentions the dating method which was used and the significance of that dating method. I found that very interesting.
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What aspects do you view most favorably about the WT and/or its religion?
by Disillusioned JW ineven if you disapprove of much about the wt and/or its religion, what aspects do you view most favorably about the wt and/or its religion?
for me one of the things i view most favorably about the wt and its religion is its extremely strong insistence that jws never intentionally kill another human being.
i especially appreciate that regarding those who have been born, but i think some abortions of human embryos might be justifiable.
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Disillusioned JW
Sea Breeze my views about the subject of whether the Bible teaches that Christians must not kill humans (including in wars between nations), as stated in my previous posts, were greatly the result of the WT's teachings on the topic. Furthermore the primary scriptural verse which I based my view upon was Matthew 26:52. But a post of yours in this topic thread did get me thinking about whether there are any biblical verses which indicate that Christians should never take up the sword (or use deadly force) against another human. As a result I researched the matter in other commentaries (and in annotations of other study Bibles) than the ones I quoted from in this topic thread. As result of such research I now think that Matthew 26:52 does not indicate that Christians should refrain from being in a police force or even in a military. Also a number of verses referred to by you and others in this topic thread are ones which I am aware of as being problematic for the idea that Christians must not be in a military. Furthermore, some other verses were mentioned in this topic thread which I likely had not thought of before in regards to whether Christians, according to words attributed to Jesus Christ, can be in a military.
It now seems to me that Matthew 26:52 is speaking of those who use deadly force against humans in unlawful ways (ways which violate the laws of human governments), including (but not likely exclusively) against police officers and established governmental military personnel of one's own community (or nation).
However, there are statements in the Bible attributed to Jesus Christ which strongly encourage the followers of Jesus Christ to be nonviolent in regards to fellow humans. These statements include ones about the meek and peacemakers being happy/blessed and becoming called sons/children of God as result and inheriting the the Earth and the kingdom of/from heaven (and of God) (see Matthew 5:5-12), loving one's enemies (and even praying for them) and about turning the other cheek (see Matthew 5:43-48 and Luke 6:27-36), and about loving one's brother.
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The Evidence of Human Evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger
by Disillusioned JW indespite the wt's and young earth creationists' teachings against human evolution (namely macroevolution from non-humans) being a reality, the evidence of human evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger.. consider for example two science news articles and one other science article, each pertaining to the fossil that is nicknamed "little foot".
below are links to three science articles, listed in order of the articles from oldest to newest (except i don't see a date for one of the articles).
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2187639-exclusive-controversial-skeleton-may-be-a-new-species-of-early-human/.
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Disillusioned JW
mickbobcat which questions do you have mind that are not answered by evolution?
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The Evidence of Human Evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger
by Disillusioned JW indespite the wt's and young earth creationists' teachings against human evolution (namely macroevolution from non-humans) being a reality, the evidence of human evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger.. consider for example two science news articles and one other science article, each pertaining to the fossil that is nicknamed "little foot".
below are links to three science articles, listed in order of the articles from oldest to newest (except i don't see a date for one of the articles).
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2187639-exclusive-controversial-skeleton-may-be-a-new-species-of-early-human/.
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Disillusioned JW
Despite the WT's and young Earth creationists' teachings against human evolution (namely macroevolution from non-humans) being a reality, the evidence of human evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger.
Consider for example two science news articles and one other science article, each pertaining to the fossil that is nicknamed "Little Foot". Below are links to three science articles, listed in order of the articles from oldest to newest (except I don't see a date for one of the articles).
https://www.maropeng.co.za/content/page/little-foot
The fossil is now dated to being 3.67 million years old - "more than a million years older than previously thought" - and it is more complete than the famous fossil which has been named "Lucy". "Little Foot" is a very impressive fossil of the genus Australopithecus!
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What aspects do you view most favorably about the WT and/or its religion?
by Disillusioned JW ineven if you disapprove of much about the wt and/or its religion, what aspects do you view most favorably about the wt and/or its religion?
for me one of the things i view most favorably about the wt and its religion is its extremely strong insistence that jws never intentionally kill another human being.
i especially appreciate that regarding those who have been born, but i think some abortions of human embryos might be justifiable.
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Disillusioned JW
Sea Breeze the WT view is not against human governments using the sword to carry out justice (even in the use of capital punishment, though I personally disapprove of capital punishment). The WT view however is against Christians intentionally causing human deaths - even in the carrying out of justice and in protecting their nation from attack by other nations. In contrast though, the WT is in favor of Christ and the 144,000 anointed ones (while in heaven) using deadly force to execute people during the battle of Armageddon.
If Christians join a military however, they run the risk of intentionally killing fellow Christians (even of their own denomination or sect) in warfare - as what happened during the USA civil war, during World Wars I and II, and during many other wars conducted between lands of Christendom. But, according to the Bible Jesus told fellow Christians to love one another (to love fellow Christians) and to not harm each other. Christian clergy [Christendom's clergy] (but not any of Jehovah's Witnesses) on each side of battle fields have told Christians soldiers to kill those on the other side (which included other Christian soldiers). How could such people (claiming to be Christians) be heeding the words attributed to Jesus Christ?
Historians have said that in the early years of Christianity Christians (except maybe for a very tiny percentage of Christians) did not join the Roman armies.
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"My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
by Diogenesister incan anyone remember the reasoning the watchtower gave for jesus speaking these words?
if you have a reference that would be even better!.
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Disillusioned JW
Sea Breeze in this topic thread you say that God abandoned Jesus, but elsewhere you say (and with stress) that Jesus is God, and you use the traditional translation of John 1:1 as a key element of your proof. It seems to me that the Trinity doctrine is tying you into a knot in this matter. The gospel verse isn't simply claiming that Jesus said that the Father forsook Jesus (nor one personage of a 3-person God), but that God, whom Jesus proclaimed to be his own God (by saying "my God") forsook him.
Even if we for the sake of argument say that the Father and the Son are both God, while maintaining that only one God exists, that would still mean that Jesus was not without God for Jesus would himself be God - even when Jesus died. Yet you say "A just, righteous and holy God has no fellowship with sin. When God made Jesus to actually be sin, he was forced to abandon him so he could die." Was Jesus a righteous and holy God when he died, even though you say Jesus actually became sin? What a quandary the trinity doctrine can cause.
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Why dont practicing JWS cant accept the fact that the Watchtower Corporation is a commercialized false prophet ?
by Finkelstein into the majority of people who investigate the activities of the wts from its beginning history there were obvious false proclamations and doctrines propagated by the wts.. a matter of fact the wts produced a long list of literature that posted proclamations on the front cover and went into detail of things that were suppose to happen, from jesus returning changing the world in which we live and so on.. wonderful things one might say but not factual or either theologically correct .
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Disillusioned JW
I have to make a slight correction/refinement to what I said in my prior post. It is in regard to the following comment. 'In the back of the WT publications where a price was mentioned for the literature, it did not say "Suggested contribution amount" or similar wording, instead it just said the price (and other times said such was the cost to obtain the literature) and in so doing it gave the impression that one had to pay that price in order to obtain the literature.'
This morning I discovered that two WT books I own use the phrase "a contribution" in reference to the prices of books advertised in the back of the two books.
The book called "Let your Kingdom Come" (Copyright 1981) in the ad for the 1981 edition of the NWT says the following. "You may request your copy of the latest edition of this valuable Bible, sending a contribution of $3.00 (U.S.) toward the printing cost to the appropriate address on page 192. (Price subject to change)". On the next page in the back of the book, four 192-page books are advertised. Regarding those the following is said. "Any one of the above books is available for a contribution of 75c (U.S.). All four for just $3.00 (U.S.). (Prices subject to change)".
The book called True Peace and Security--How Can You Find It? (Copyright 1986) in the ad for the Life--How did it get here? By evolution or by creation? book and in the ad for the You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth book each say the following. "Available for a contribution of $2.50 (U.S.). (Amount subject to change.)"
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Does this look like the WT is going to be around a long time? One Watchtower @ One Awake for the public in 2022
by pistolpete ini keep hearing that the watchtower org is going to be around forever because of the many other religions that have been around a long time.
but i disagree because the wt is not like other religious cults.. the watchtower's breath of life is dependent on the last days that started in 1914. .
you can’t change 1914 without a death blow to the entire organization.. the watchtower's 2nd reason for staying alive, is it's continual urging that the life saving preaching work of warning people is the most important work ever.. but- it's very obvious to many, even the old ones that instead of speeding up the work------the work is slowing down to a drip.. comment by former believer; .
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Disillusioned JW
I am aware that a number of books written by evangelical Christians, with a figurative axe to grind, have written anti-cult books which classify the JW religion as a cult. They (at least the ones I am aware of) are published by Christian publishing houses instead of by publishers of science books. I have some of them, namely the following.
- The Kingdom Of The Cults - Limited Edition, by Walter Martin
- The Four Major Cults, by Anthony A. Hoekema.
- I have a book written by someone who claims he "was converted to Christianity from the Jehovah's Witnesses in 1950". That person claims to have obtained theological degrees after his conversion and to have served as "Professor of History and Apologetics at The Master's College". His name is Edmond Charles Gruss and his book which I own is The Jehovah's Witnesses and Prophetic Speculation: An Examination and Refutation of the Witnesses' Position on the Second Coming of Christ, Armageddon and the "End of the World" - Second edition. That edition is dated 'December, 1975" and my copy of the book is the "Seventh printing, May, 1983. Gruss apparently considers the JW to be a cult for in "The Author" page the book says: "Interest in the cult field stems from his conversion from the Jehovah's Witnesses in 1950." "The Author" page also says he is "... a member of ... Creation Research Society ..." and thus I think he is a young Earth creationist; and on pages 118-127 he reprints (with permission) pages 474-483 of the young Earth creationist book by Whitecomb and Morris called The Genesis Flood.
- I have the book called Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Jehovah's Witnesses, by Ron Rhodes. Chapter one of that book is called "The Watchtower Society: God's Organization or Cultic Tyrant?"
- I also have the book called Understanding Jehovah's Witnesses: Why They Read the Bible the Way They Do, by Robert M. Bowman, Jr. Like the ones above, it is published by a Christian publisher, but I don't notice that book as referring to the JW religion as a cult. In a number of respects it is sympathetic of the JWs. On page 79 (in the chapter called "The Foundation of Jehovah's Witness Beliefs") it says the following.
"A good case can therefore be made that it was this rationalistic approach to religion that was foundational for Russell's own beliefs. His rationalistic desire to comprehend God and his truth led Russell first to abandon faith in the Bible, and then to accept it again on the condition that the Bible be interpreted in keeping with his reasoning.
Evangelicals have frequently pointed out Russell's rationalistic bias against the doctrines of eternal punishment and the Trinity. What is likely to disturb evangelicals, however, is to find that Russell's bias was so much a part of his culture that not even the evangelicals of his day were immune to it. As has been pointed out, some strains of the Calvinistic or Reformed faith in America in Russell's day (and long before him) tended to be rationalistic. The same tendency affected other evangelicals and the general culture at large."
Regarding Charles Taze Russell, Bowman, Jr. on page 80 says: "For him human rationality functioned as an authority over the Bible, dictating what was not possible for God to be and do."
I remember that when I was an active believing JW (and when I was considering becoming baptized as one) one of the things which greatly impressed me about the JW religion was that, to me at least (at the time), it used a rational approach to interpreting the Bible and employed the use of reason. To me it was a religion which primarily appealed to reason, instead of to blind faith and to emotion. However later as a JW I also noticed that the WT literature many times employed faulty logic. But, as a publisher in field service and as a ministerial servant, I tried to make all of my reasoning in support of WT/JW doctrines use sound logical reasoning. In my preaching (from door to door and in talks at the Kingdom Hall) I avoided using the particular lines of reasoning of the WT literature that I thought violated rules of logic. In college (while also a ministerial servant) I also took two introductory philosophy courses in logic and I excelled in those courses.
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Does this look like the WT is going to be around a long time? One Watchtower @ One Awake for the public in 2022
by pistolpete ini keep hearing that the watchtower org is going to be around forever because of the many other religions that have been around a long time.
but i disagree because the wt is not like other religious cults.. the watchtower's breath of life is dependent on the last days that started in 1914. .
you can’t change 1914 without a death blow to the entire organization.. the watchtower's 2nd reason for staying alive, is it's continual urging that the life saving preaching work of warning people is the most important work ever.. but- it's very obvious to many, even the old ones that instead of speeding up the work------the work is slowing down to a drip.. comment by former believer; .
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Disillusioned JW
The ultimate main reasons why the WT's predictions about the end have not come true are the following; 1) The Bible's predictions (including those attributed to Jesus and Paul) about the apocalypse and the great tribulation (in the sense of post 134 CE) and the return of Christ are false; 2) the Bible has numerous internal contradictions, making it unreliable in many matters and thus making it hard to properly interpret; 3) the Bible is not the inspired of the God, any god, for no personal God/god even exists - and no supernatural Christ and supernatural Satan/Devil exist either.
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/30/982671783/fewer-than-half-of-u-s-adults-belong-to-a-religious-congregation-new-poll-shows might be of interest to some of the readers of this web site.